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OT: I have a new computer

J
John
Mon, Oct 11, 2021 4:11 PM

This the second computer I've bought pre-built (the first was in the late 1980s)

  • not counting several laptops I've owned over the years.

In between I've built all of my own computers. First off, I'm not impressed with
the build quality. It's got those pretty RGB fans that change color with a glass
front & side. But it wouldn't power on. They forgot to plug the wire from the
power switch into the motherboard, so I had to take the side off to get to it.
The screws that hold the glass side in place don't want to go back in. Two of
them cross threaded immediately.

I'm pretty sure those multi-color fans are going to get old real fast (like
already).

I've been having trouble with the video card on this computer for a while, but
the "chip" shortage and logistics chain bottlenecks & whatever, it was actually
cheaper to buy a whole new pre-built computer than to find a new video card for
this computer.

I bought the card that's in this computer now (8GB) a couple of years ago when I
got a 4K monitor. But back then it was only a couple hundred dollars. The same
card now goes for over a thousand.

Current RANT/tale of woe:

I spent the weekend moving furniture to make room for an additional file cabinet
so the new computer would have a solid surface to sit on. I HURT! I hurt so much
I can barely move.

It's Windoze10 and it came with a 1TB SSD (one of those little cards the size of
a stick of chewing gum). I have at least 3TB of STUFF on this computer I'm going
to have to move over there, so I added a couple of 4TB "spinny" drives.

One of them won't format. I bought four of them for spares for my server & I
decided to go ahead and use two of them for the new computer ... so I've already
got a 25% failure rate out of the box.

My speaker system is not working. That may be a blessing in disguise because I
haven't heard a peep out of Cortana yet.

Can't troubleshoot it until I finish Windoze10 setup (drives formatted).

I suspect the color code on the computer doesn't match the color code on the
wiring harness that connects the computer output to the speaker system input.

Sorting that out is a future problem. I still have to get the new computer
actually running first. Note that I had to hook this one back up temporarily to
get some work done. That ain't an auspicious sign.

--
Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
Religion - Answers we must never question.

This the second computer I've bought pre-built (the first was in the late 1980s) - not counting several laptops I've owned over the years. In between I've built all of my own computers. First off, I'm not impressed with the build quality. It's got those pretty RGB fans that change color with a glass front & side. But it wouldn't power on. They forgot to plug the wire from the power switch into the motherboard, so I had to take the side off to get to it. The screws that hold the glass side in place don't want to go back in. Two of them cross threaded immediately. I'm pretty sure those multi-color fans are going to get old real fast (like already). I've been having trouble with the video card on this computer for a while, but the "chip" shortage and logistics chain bottlenecks & whatever, it was actually cheaper to buy a whole new pre-built computer than to find a new video card for this computer. I bought the card that's in this computer now (8GB) a couple of years ago when I got a 4K monitor. But back then it was only a couple hundred dollars. The same card now goes for over a thousand. Current RANT/tale of woe: I spent the weekend moving furniture to make room for an additional file cabinet so the new computer would have a solid surface to sit on. I HURT! I hurt so much I can barely move. It's Windoze10 and it came with a 1TB SSD (one of those little cards the size of a stick of chewing gum). I have at least 3TB of STUFF on this computer I'm going to have to move over there, so I added a couple of 4TB "spinny" drives. One of them won't format. I bought four of them for spares for my server & I decided to go ahead and use two of them for the new computer ... so I've already got a 25% failure rate out of the box. My speaker system is not working. That may be a blessing in disguise because I haven't heard a peep out of Cortana yet. Can't troubleshoot it until I finish Windoze10 setup (drives formatted). I suspect the color code on the computer doesn't match the color code on the wiring harness that connects the computer output to the speaker system input. Sorting that out is a future problem. I still have to get the new computer actually running first. Note that I had to hook this one back up temporarily to get some work done. That ain't an auspicious sign. -- Science - Questions we may never find answers for. Religion - Answers we must never question.
J
John
Mon, Oct 11, 2021 9:42 PM

Windows 19 will not format disk 1. It says I have a healthy primary partition,
but when I try to format it, it churns for a while and then pops up a window
with an error:

"Windows was unable to complete the format."

Doesn't give me any further information. This is a 4TB drive, but windows would
not create a partition larger than 2048.00GB. This is the second drive I've
tried. I thought the hard disk was defective, but now I'm pretty sure it's
Windoze10.

Have I mentioned lately how much I despise Windoze10.

There are not enough vile disgusting swear words in the English language to
allow me to express my true feelings about it.

--
Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
Religion - Answers we must never question.

Windows 19 will not format disk 1. It says I have a healthy primary partition, but when I try to format it, it churns for a while and then pops up a window with an error: "Windows was unable to complete the format." Doesn't give me any further information. This is a 4TB drive, but windows would not create a partition larger than 2048.00GB. This is the second drive I've tried. I thought the hard disk was defective, but now I'm pretty sure it's Windoze10. Have I mentioned lately how much I despise Windoze10. There are not enough vile disgusting swear words in the English language to allow me to express my true feelings about it. -- Science - Questions we may never find answers for. Religion - Answers we must never question.
J
John
Tue, Oct 12, 2021 3:22 AM

This is NOT a computer that I put together myself.

This is a computer that I bought pre-assembled with the OS pre-installed. It
only came with a 1TB SSD M.2 module (which I have not touched). But I knew I
would have to add additional drives.

I've never had these kind of problems with the computers I built for myself,
although when Micro$oft nagged me into attempting to "upgrade" from Windows 7 to
Windoze10 it was a disaster.

At this point, I'm beginning to believe the computer itself is defective.

I'm using Windows Disk Manager, signed in as Administrator. Disk Manager is the
utility built into WindowsNT (which is the basis of Windows XP, VISTA, 7, 8, 8.1
and 10). It's the tool provided by Micro$oft for adding disks to Windows.

The pre-installed Windows is a 64bit version and I was allowing Disk Manager to
choose the "partition scheme".

The 4TB drive I connected to SATA 1 initialized, partitioned into a single
(3.7TB) volume and formatted with no problem. The 4TB drive I connected to SATA
2 initialized and partitioned into a single (3.7TB) volume, but would not
format. It would begin, but ended with a "Windows was unable to complete the
format" error.

I have 4 of these Seagate 4TB drives I purchased in August (I have about 8 more
that I'm currently using - 5 in my file server & 3 in my Photoshop computer
(both of which I did build myself).

I switched out the second 4TB drive connected to SATA 2. That third drive is the
one that would only partition to 2048GB, and it did so with a GPT partition that
could not be initialized, formatted, resized or deleted.

Seagate's web site had information on how to use DISKPART to remove the stuck
GPT partition.

It's apparently a known problem & they've already got the "solution" on their
web site, because Micro$oft Help is no help.

I did that and used Disk Manager to partition the drive with a MBR. That gave me
a 2048GB partition again, but this time it could be initialized & run format ...
although format again ended with the "Windows was unable to complete the format"
error.

This is compounded by neither the seller nor the manufacturer providing
technical support because of the Federal holiday today (yesterday by now).

And to top it off, the video in the new computer just stopped working.

It blinked off a couple of times while I was trying to open web pages, and then
came back. After doing that three or four times it just blinked off and wouldn't
come back. The monitor says there is no video signal and shuts itself down.

I let it cool down for a while and the video came back up lasting just long
enough to get to the login screen before shutting off again ... "No input
signal" and the monitor shuts down again.

For those who are wondering the reason a 4TB drive partitions into 3.7TB, it's
because the what the disk manufacturers call a 4TB drive is 4,000GB.

A true 4TB drive would be 4096GB. 4,000GB comes out to about 3.7TB.

On 10/12/2021 01:59:07, John Francis wrote:

The more posts I see with people reporting the problems they have trying
to put computer systems together themselves, the more I think my decision
to pay the extra cost of buying a ready-built system is the right one.
It's not all that much more expensive, and all I have to do is plug it in.
And if there is a problem, they typically come with 12 months of support.

If you're initializing disks using 512-byte sectors, you're going to be stuck
with a 2TB partition size limit (because the sector number is a 32-bit value).
Windows 10 can handle larger disks, but you're either going to have to set up
multiple partitions on 2TB or less, or use a different partitioning scheme.
Microsoft have something called GPT (GUID Partition Table).  For details, see
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-server/backup-and-storage/support-for-hard-disks-exceeding-2-tb#initialize-a-data-disk-by-using-gpt

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On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 05:42:51PM -0400, John wrote:

Windows 19 will not format disk 1. It says I have a healthy primary
partition, but when I try to format it, it churns for a while and then pops
up a window with an error:

"Windows was unable to complete the format."

Doesn't give me any further information. This is a 4TB drive, but windows
would not create a partition larger than 2048.00GB. This is the second drive
I've tried. I thought the hard disk was defective, but now I'm pretty sure
it's Windoze10.

Have I mentioned lately how much I despise Windoze10.

There are not enough vile disgusting swear words in the English language to
allow me to express my true feelings about it.

--
Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
Religion - Answers we must never question.

This is *NOT* a computer that I put together myself. This is a computer that I bought pre-assembled with the OS pre-installed. It only came with a 1TB SSD M.2 module (which I have not touched). But I knew I would have to add additional drives. I've never had these kind of problems with the computers I built for myself, although when Micro$oft nagged me into attempting to "upgrade" from Windows 7 to Windoze10 it was a disaster. At this point, I'm beginning to believe the computer itself is defective. I'm using Windows Disk Manager, signed in as Administrator. Disk Manager is the utility built into WindowsNT (which is the basis of Windows XP, VISTA, 7, 8, 8.1 and 10). It's the tool provided by Micro$oft for adding disks to Windows. The pre-installed Windows is a 64bit version and I was allowing Disk Manager to choose the "partition scheme". The 4TB drive I connected to SATA 1 initialized, partitioned into a single (3.7TB) volume and formatted with no problem. The 4TB drive I connected to SATA 2 initialized and partitioned into a single (3.7TB) volume, but would not format. It would begin, but ended with a "Windows was unable to complete the format" error. I have 4 of these Seagate 4TB drives I purchased in August (I have about 8 more that I'm currently using - 5 in my file server & 3 in my Photoshop computer (both of which I did build myself). I switched out the second 4TB drive connected to SATA 2. That third drive is the one that would only partition to 2048GB, and it did so with a GPT partition that could not be initialized, formatted, resized or deleted. Seagate's web site had information on how to use DISKPART to remove the stuck GPT partition. It's apparently a known problem & they've already got the "solution" on their web site, because Micro$oft Help is no help. I did that and used Disk Manager to partition the drive with a MBR. That gave me a 2048GB partition again, but this time it could be initialized & run format ... although format again ended with the "Windows was unable to complete the format" error. This is compounded by neither the seller nor the manufacturer providing technical support because of the Federal holiday today (yesterday by now). And to top it off, the video in the new computer just stopped working. It blinked off a couple of times while I was trying to open web pages, and then came back. After doing that three or four times it just blinked off and wouldn't come back. The monitor says there is no video signal and shuts itself down. I let it cool down for a while and the video came back up lasting just long enough to get to the login screen before shutting off again ... "No input signal" and the monitor shuts down again. For those who are wondering the reason a 4TB drive partitions into 3.7TB, it's because the what the disk manufacturers call a 4TB drive is 4,000GB. A true 4TB drive would be 4096GB. 4,000GB comes out to about 3.7TB. On 10/12/2021 01:59:07, John Francis wrote: > > The more posts I see with people reporting the problems they have trying > to put computer systems together themselves, the more I think my decision > to pay the extra cost of buying a ready-built system is the right one. > It's not all that much more expensive, and all I have to do is plug it in. > And if there is a problem, they typically come with 12 months of support. > > If you're initializing disks using 512-byte sectors, you're going to be stuck > with a 2TB partition size limit (because the sector number is a 32-bit value). > Windows 10 can handle larger disks, but you're either going to have to set up > multiple partitions on 2TB or less, or use a different partitioning scheme. > Microsoft have something called GPT (GUID Partition Table). For details, see > https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-server/backup-and-storage/support-for-hard-disks-exceeding-2-tb#initialize-a-data-disk-by-using-gpt > -- > %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List > To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-leave@pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. > >> On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 05:42:51PM -0400, John wrote: >>> Windows 19 will not format disk 1. It says I have a healthy primary >>> partition, but when I try to format it, it churns for a while and then pops >>> up a window with an error: >>> >>> "Windows was unable to complete the format." >>> >>> Doesn't give me any further information. This is a 4TB drive, but windows >>> would not create a partition larger than 2048.00GB. This is the second drive >>> I've tried. I thought the hard disk was defective, but now I'm pretty sure >>> it's Windoze10. >>> >>> Have I mentioned lately how much I despise Windoze10. >>> >>> There are not enough vile disgusting swear words in the English language to >>> allow me to express my true feelings about it. -- Science - Questions we may never find answers for. Religion - Answers we must never question.
JF
John Francis
Tue, Oct 12, 2021 5:59 AM

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 05:42:51PM -0400, John wrote:

Windows 19 will not format disk 1. It says I have a healthy primary
partition, but when I try to format it, it churns for a while and then pops
up a window with an error:

"Windows was unable to complete the format."

Doesn't give me any further information. This is a 4TB drive, but windows
would not create a partition larger than 2048.00GB. This is the second drive
I've tried. I thought the hard disk was defective, but now I'm pretty sure
it's Windoze10.

Have I mentioned lately how much I despise Windoze10.

There are not enough vile disgusting swear words in the English language to
allow me to express my true feelings about it.

The more posts I see with people reporting the problems they have trying
to put computer systems together themselves, the more I think my decision
to pay the extra cost of buying a ready-built system is the right one.
It's not all that much more expensive, and all I have to do is plug it in.
And if there is a problem, they typically come with 12 months of support.

If you're initializing disks using 512-byte sectors, you're going to be stuck
with a 2TB partition size limit (because the sector number is a 32-bit value).
Windows 10 can handle larger disks, but you're either going to have to set up
multiple partitions on 2TB or less, or use a different partitioning scheme.
Microsoft have something called GPT (GUID Partition Table).  For details, see
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-server/backup-and-storage/support-for-hard-disks-exceeding-2-tb#initialize-a-data-disk-by-using-gpt

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 05:42:51PM -0400, John wrote: > Windows 19 will not format disk 1. It says I have a healthy primary > partition, but when I try to format it, it churns for a while and then pops > up a window with an error: > > "Windows was unable to complete the format." > > Doesn't give me any further information. This is a 4TB drive, but windows > would not create a partition larger than 2048.00GB. This is the second drive > I've tried. I thought the hard disk was defective, but now I'm pretty sure > it's Windoze10. > > Have I mentioned lately how much I despise Windoze10. > > There are not enough vile disgusting swear words in the English language to > allow me to express my true feelings about it. The more posts I see with people reporting the problems they have trying to put computer systems together themselves, the more I think my decision to pay the extra cost of buying a ready-built system is the right one. It's not all that much more expensive, and all I have to do is plug it in. And if there is a problem, they typically come with 12 months of support. If you're initializing disks using 512-byte sectors, you're going to be stuck with a 2TB partition size limit (because the sector number is a 32-bit value). Windows 10 can handle larger disks, but you're either going to have to set up multiple partitions on 2TB or less, or use a different partitioning scheme. Microsoft have something called GPT (GUID Partition Table). For details, see https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-server/backup-and-storage/support-for-hard-disks-exceeding-2-tb#initialize-a-data-disk-by-using-gpt
LC
Larry Colen
Tue, Oct 12, 2021 8:08 AM

On Oct 11, 2021, at 8:22 PM, John jsessoms002@nc.rr.com wrote:

This is NOT a computer that I put together myself.

This is a computer that I bought pre-assembled with the OS pre-installed. It only came with a 1TB SSD M.2 module (which I have not touched). But I knew I would have to add additional drives.

You might be able to diagnose it with a live boot linux CD.

--
Larry Colen
lrc@red4est.com

> On Oct 11, 2021, at 8:22 PM, John <jsessoms002@nc.rr.com> wrote: > > This is *NOT* a computer that I put together myself. > > This is a computer that I bought pre-assembled with the OS pre-installed. It only came with a 1TB SSD M.2 module (which I have not touched). But I knew I would have to add additional drives. You might be able to diagnose it with a live boot linux CD. -- Larry Colen lrc@red4est.com
J
John
Tue, Oct 12, 2021 3:01 PM

Thanks Larry,

It doesn't have a CD-ROM or DVD drive. I might be able to make a bootable thumb
drive, but ...

Today NOT being a Federal Holiday and it being AFTER 8:00 am out there on the
west coast, I was able to talk to their customer support, and they're sending an
advance replacement with a return shipping label.

All I should have to do is unbox the new unit, place the defective unit in the
box, paste the label on ... and drop it off at the carrier's local customer counter.

On 10/12/2021 04:08:40, Larry Colen wrote:

On Oct 11, 2021, at 8:22 PM, John jsessoms002@nc.rr.com wrote:

This is NOT a computer that I put together myself.

This is a computer that I bought pre-assembled with the OS pre-installed. It only came with a 1TB SSD M.2 module (which I have not touched). But I knew I would have to add additional drives.

You might be able to diagnose it with a live boot linux CD.

--
Larry Colen
lrc@red4est.com

--
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Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
Religion - Answers we must never question.

Thanks Larry, It doesn't have a CD-ROM or DVD drive. I might be able to make a bootable thumb drive, but ... Today NOT being a Federal Holiday and it being AFTER 8:00 am out there on the west coast, I was able to talk to their customer support, and they're sending an advance replacement with a return shipping label. All I should have to do is unbox the new unit, place the defective unit in the box, paste the label on ... and drop it off at the carrier's local customer counter. On 10/12/2021 04:08:40, Larry Colen wrote: > > >> On Oct 11, 2021, at 8:22 PM, John <jsessoms002@nc.rr.com> wrote: >> >> This is *NOT* a computer that I put together myself. >> >> This is a computer that I bought pre-assembled with the OS pre-installed. It only came with a 1TB SSD M.2 module (which I have not touched). But I knew I would have to add additional drives. > > You might be able to diagnose it with a live boot linux CD. > > > -- > Larry Colen > lrc@red4est.com > > > -- > %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List > To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-leave@pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. > -- Science - Questions we may never find answers for. Religion - Answers we must never question.
JF
John Francis
Tue, Oct 12, 2021 4:00 PM

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 01:08:40AM -0700, Larry Colen wrote:

On Oct 11, 2021, at 8:22 PM, John jsessoms002@nc.rr.com wrote:

This is NOT a computer that I put together myself.

This is a computer that I bought pre-assembled with the OS pre-installed. It only came with a 1TB SSD M.2 module (which I have not touched). But I knew I would have to add additional drives.

You might be able to diagnose it with a live boot linux CD.

The fundamental problem is that a file system using 32-bit segment addressing and 512-byte segments can't be larger than 2TB.
While Microsoft do now have file systems that can use 64-bit segment numbers, they aren't compatible with older firmware (and, in particular, older BIOSes), so by default file system partitions will be initialized with the backwards-compatible format.

You need a system using UEFI rather than an older BIOS if you want to boot off a volume larger that 2TB.
There are a couple of extra hoops you need to jump through to be able to put a file sytem larger than 2TB on a drive.
Presumably this is partly an effort to stop you making a drive you can't actually use, and partly because at least some of the tools being used date back to the days when NTFS was the new large-disk system, and a 2GB drive was considered large!
The disk partitioning software is quite happy with large physical volumes, so it's capable of making a raw partition larger than 2TB.  The problem comes when you try and put a file system on it, because the default is NTFS.

Note that Windows 11 requires UEFI

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 01:08:40AM -0700, Larry Colen wrote: > > > > On Oct 11, 2021, at 8:22 PM, John <jsessoms002@nc.rr.com> wrote: > > > > This is *NOT* a computer that I put together myself. > > > > This is a computer that I bought pre-assembled with the OS pre-installed. It only came with a 1TB SSD M.2 module (which I have not touched). But I knew I would have to add additional drives. > > You might be able to diagnose it with a live boot linux CD. The fundamental problem is that a file system using 32-bit segment addressing and 512-byte segments can't be larger than 2TB. While Microsoft do now have file systems that can use 64-bit segment numbers, they aren't compatible with older firmware (and, in particular, older BIOSes), so by default file system partitions will be initialized with the backwards-compatible format. You need a system using UEFI rather than an older BIOS if you want to boot off a volume larger that 2TB. There are a couple of extra hoops you need to jump through to be able to put a file sytem larger than 2TB on a drive. Presumably this is partly an effort to stop you making a drive you can't actually use, and partly because at least some of the tools being used date back to the days when NTFS was the new large-disk system, and a 2GB drive was considered large! The disk partitioning software is quite happy with large physical volumes, so it's capable of making a raw partition larger than 2TB. The problem comes when you try and put a file system on it, because the default is NTFS. Note that Windows 11 requires UEFI
J
John
Tue, Oct 12, 2021 4:20 PM

The fundamental problem is this IS a system using UEFI bios and a 64-bit OS,
so it SHOULD be able to partition a 4TB drive as a single volume.

And it did so for the first 4TB drive attached to SATA 1. It had no problems
formatting that volume and it did so NTFS.

BUT, it would NOT DO SO for an IDENTICAL 4TB drive attached to SATA 2. And it
would not format ANY size volume on the drive attached to SATA 2.

THIS computer has Windows 7. It also has a 4TB drive partitioned into a single
volume and formatted NTFS ... or at least that's what Windoze is calling it.

I didn't have to jump through any hoops to get it to work. I physically
installed the 4TB disk & used Windows Disk Manager to partition it into a single
volume and then format the volume however Windows wanted to do so.

What it wanted was NTFS.

I know a little bit about building computers. I bought a computer in the late
1980s. That was the last pre-built computer I bought before the new one I'm
bitching about.

In between, I don't know how many computers I've built. But I know I built my
first one some time in the early 90s BEFORE I was hired by the IBM PC Company in
1994.

While I was at IBM I did telephone support for Operating Systems (I even got a
call from NASA one time relaying to the Space Shuttle because they needed help
with DOS memory management on a 755CD Thinkpad they had along with them).

Then, I worked in manufacturing as a debugger - fixing whatever was wrong with
computers that failed the final test before being packed for shipping.

After that I worked as internal tech support for the department that developed
the software subsystem (preload) for the computers IBM was going to manufacture
during their next product cycle (IBM released new computers twice a year) and
handled export logistics to get those software preloads to the manufacturing
plants world wide.

After IBM decided to cease manufacturing PCs in the U.S. (about three or four
years before selling the brand to Lenovo) I worked as a contractor for the USPS,
doing telephone support for their Point of Sale systems.

I'm not a computer scientist, and NOT a programmer, but I have enough experience
as a computer tech that I know what I'm doing when I have to set one up.

At the moment, the hard drive problem is MOOT, because the video card failed.

Today NOT being a Federal Holiday, I was able to talk to their Customer Support.
From what he said, that happens A LOT. They're shipping an advance replacement
with a "return label" so I can send the failed unit back.

The fundamental problem is that a file system using 32-bit segment
addressing and 512-byte segments can't be larger than 2TB.
While Microsoft do now have file systems that can use 64-bit
segment numbers, they aren't compatible with older firmware (and,
in particular, older BIOSes), so by default file system partitions
will be initialized with the backwards-compatible format.

You need a system using UEFI rather than an older BIOS if you want
to boot off a volume larger that 2TB.

On 10/12/2021 12:00:20, John Francis wrote:

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 01:08:40AM -0700, Larry Colen wrote:

On Oct 11, 2021, at 8:22 PM, John jsessoms002@nc.rr.com wrote:

This is NOT a computer that I put together myself.

This is a computer that I bought pre-assembled with the OS pre-installed. It only came with a 1TB SSD M.2 module (which I have not touched). But I knew I would have to add additional drives.

You might be able to diagnose it with a live boot linux CD.

The fundamental problem is that a file system using 32-bit segment addressing and 512-byte segments can't be larger than 2TB.
While Microsoft do now have file systems that can use 64-bit segment numbers, they aren't compatible with older firmware (and, in particular, older BIOSes), so by default file system partitions will be initialized with the backwards-compatible format.

You need a system using UEFI rather than an older BIOS if you want to boot off a volume larger that 2TB.
There are a couple of extra hoops you need to jump through to be able to put a file sytem larger than 2TB on a drive.
Presumably this is partly an effort to stop you making a drive you can't actually use, and partly because at least some of the tools being used date back to the days when NTFS was the new large-disk system, and a 2GB drive was considered large!
The disk partitioning software is quite happy with large physical volumes, so it's capable of making a raw partition larger than 2TB.  The problem comes when you try and put a file system on it, because the default is NTFS.

Note that Windows 11 requires UEFI

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Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
Religion - Answers we must never question.

The fundamental problem is this *IS* a system using UEFI bios and a 64-bit OS, so it *SHOULD* be able to partition a 4TB drive as a single volume. And it did so for the first 4TB drive attached to SATA 1. It had no problems formatting that volume and it did so NTFS. BUT, it would NOT DO SO for an IDENTICAL 4TB drive attached to SATA 2. And it would not format ANY size volume on the drive attached to SATA 2. THIS computer has Windows 7. It also has a 4TB drive partitioned into a single volume and formatted NTFS ... or at least that's what Windoze is calling it. I didn't have to jump through any hoops to get it to work. I physically installed the 4TB disk & used Windows Disk Manager to partition it into a single volume and then format the volume however Windows wanted to do so. What it wanted was NTFS. I know a little bit about building computers. I bought a computer in the late 1980s. That was the last pre-built computer I bought before the new one I'm bitching about. In between, I don't know how many computers I've built. But I know I built my first one some time in the early 90s BEFORE I was hired by the IBM PC Company in 1994. While I was at IBM I did telephone support for Operating Systems (I even got a call from NASA one time relaying to the Space Shuttle because they needed help with DOS memory management on a 755CD Thinkpad they had along with them). Then, I worked in manufacturing as a debugger - fixing whatever was wrong with computers that failed the final test before being packed for shipping. After that I worked as internal tech support for the department that developed the software subsystem (preload) for the computers IBM was going to manufacture during their next product cycle (IBM released new computers twice a year) and handled export logistics to get those software preloads to the manufacturing plants world wide. After IBM decided to cease manufacturing PCs in the U.S. (about three or four years before selling the brand to Lenovo) I worked as a contractor for the USPS, doing telephone support for their Point of Sale systems. I'm not a computer scientist, and NOT a programmer, but I have enough experience as a computer tech that I know what I'm doing when I have to set one up. At the moment, the hard drive problem is MOOT, because the video card failed. Today NOT being a Federal Holiday, I was able to talk to their Customer Support. From what he said, that happens A LOT. They're shipping an advance replacement with a "return label" so I can send the failed unit back. >> The fundamental problem is that a file system using 32-bit segment >> addressing and 512-byte segments can't be larger than 2TB. >> While Microsoft do now have file systems that can use 64-bit >> segment numbers, they aren't compatible with older firmware (and, >> in particular, older BIOSes), so by default file system partitions >> will be initialized with the backwards-compatible format. >> >> You need a system using UEFI rather than an older BIOS if you want >> to boot off a volume larger that 2TB. On 10/12/2021 12:00:20, John Francis wrote: > On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 01:08:40AM -0700, Larry Colen wrote: >> >> >>> On Oct 11, 2021, at 8:22 PM, John <jsessoms002@nc.rr.com> wrote: >>> >>> This is *NOT* a computer that I put together myself. >>> >>> This is a computer that I bought pre-assembled with the OS pre-installed. It only came with a 1TB SSD M.2 module (which I have not touched). But I knew I would have to add additional drives. >> >> You might be able to diagnose it with a live boot linux CD. > > The fundamental problem is that a file system using 32-bit segment addressing and 512-byte segments can't be larger than 2TB. > While Microsoft do now have file systems that can use 64-bit segment numbers, they aren't compatible with older firmware (and, in particular, older BIOSes), so by default file system partitions will be initialized with the backwards-compatible format. > > You need a system using UEFI rather than an older BIOS if you want to boot off a volume larger that 2TB. > There are a couple of extra hoops you need to jump through to be able to put a file sytem larger than 2TB on a drive. > Presumably this is partly an effort to stop you making a drive you can't actually use, and partly because at least some of the tools being used date back to the days when NTFS was the new large-disk system, and a 2GB drive was considered large! > The disk partitioning software is quite happy with large physical volumes, so it's capable of making a raw partition larger than 2TB. The problem comes when you try and put a file system on it, because the default is NTFS. > > Note that Windows 11 requires UEFI > -- > %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List > To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-leave@pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. > -- Science - Questions we may never find answers for. Religion - Answers we must never question.