Last week I got Pixeleighted, a Pixel 8 Pro. My Pixel 3XL still works OK, but they've stopped updating the software, some apps are starting to run a bit roughly, and I just don't have the time to deal with jail breaking it and running something like cyanogenmod. One of my motivations for the upgrade was the improved camera, or rather cameras. I will say right off the bat, that it is going to take some time to learn how to use it. I tried to set it up, and it got in a mode where every time I took a picture it would take photos for several seconds or something. On the other hand, it does have a mode where you can manually set shutter speed and ISO, possibly even manually focus it. I also managed to go for a bike ride today, my first one in several months. I've finally unpacked enough at the new place that I can take a few hours off for something like a bike ride. When I stopped to take some photos with the u43 Lumix, GX9 I spontaneously decided to try some side by sides with the phone. With the 14-150 at 14mm, it was a very similar angle of view to the phone at "1x", though you can tell the difference between them by the aspect ratio. This album has photos made from the phone jpeg, dng and the Lumix raw files. Pretty much the only processing done was raw conversion, and autotoning of the Lumix raw files https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72177720312632275 Summary: Once I learn the gear, I should be able to get adequate photos with either of them, but their main advantages are convenience, if I really care about image quality, I'll use one of my Pentax cameras. -- Larry Colen lrc@red4est.com. sent from Mirkwood