PDML Annual book - request for next year

John sessomsj at earthlink.net
Thu Mar 1 15:05:27 EST 2018

On 3/1/2018 00:55, John Francis wrote:
> The frequency of problems encountered with Windows 10 is pretty strongly correlated
> with how unusual your configuration is.  If you're running a machine that is identical
> to thousands of other machines out there, youre not likely to run into many problems.
> If, on the other hand, you have a system that you've built yourself from a variety
> of different components, you're on somewhat shakier ground.  Not every device has
> new W10 drivers, and even if your ones do it's unlikely that the device manufacturer
> tested their new driver on a machine that matches your configuration (and even less
> likely that any testing had all the newest drivers for all the other devices).  Most
> of the time you'll be fine, and there won't be interactions between the drivers (even
> if you're using old W7 drivers because there isn't a W10 driver for one or more devices).
> But if you're one of the unlucky ones who is the first to trip over a particular bug
> you're stuck, and you're unlikely to get any help determining which of the devices is
> actually causing your problem (and even less likely to get the manufacturer of the
> device to admit responsibility and fix the problem).

A recap of my experience "installing" Windoze 10 on 3 systems or "Why I *HATE* Windoze 10".

1. Toshiba laptop - Nag, nag, nag, nag ... until I finally gave in and agreed to the "upgrade".
The "upgrade" installer churns for a while and finally returns a message that the manufacturer
will not provide a video driver for that model, so it can't be "upgraded". No appeal.

Toshiba's website says this model won't EVER run Windoze 10 so stop asking about it. [Note 1]

2. Home-built system - this one that I use for general browsing the internet, playing video
games and arguing with people who are just WRONG!

"Upgrade" was slow, but it eventually booted into Windoze 10. That's when the real aggravation
began. Windoze 10 appears to be a touchscreen based operating system. It tried to turn my
computer into a giant Windoze Phone. Only with great difficulty was I able to get Cortana to

The desktop was completely covered with applets. Every time I tried to start a program I
normally use, Windoze 10 would tell me I should use its built in applet instead and then
opened the applet rather than the program I wanted to use. I fought this for two days, could
never get a clean desktop and finally gave it up for a lost cause & forced a reversion to
Windows 7.

In the meanwhile ...

3. Super-Duper Custom Built system made specifically to run *PhotoShop* and make it scream!

Fast, multi-core i7 CPU; MUCH RAM; SSD for OS & Applications; SSD for Photoshop scratch drive;
large spinney drive for data storage; nVidia GeForce GT 620 graphics adapter.

Backed up using Windows Backup & restore before "upgrading"

First Attempt - "upgrade" installer churned for 24+ hours before crashing at "first boot".
Went online looking for solution & was directed to find 3 files that would reveal the error
that caused it to crash. Found only one of those files, but it became apparent the installer
was looking for an AMD processor. Ok, so could be my fault. Download new installer from

Second Attempt - "upgrade" installer churned for 12+ hours, and did manage to get through
"first boot". But there was obviously something wrong because the mouse had tremendous lag.

I mean "move the mouse & go into the kitchen, make a pot of coffee and come back to see if
the pointer on screen has moved yet" lag. Couldn't troubleshoot because of the extreme lag.
Try to open a menu and it would close before I could move the pointer over the item I
wanted to select & click.

Plus, there was no "revert to Windows 7". I guess the menu selection might have been there,
but I couldn't get to it if there was.

Only option was a clean install from disc (which fortunately I have + Product Key).
Unfortunately, when I got Windows 7 installed again, it would not recognize the Windows
Backup I made before starting this whole unholy mess, so I had to manually reinstall all of
my applications. The only bright point was that none of the process had affected my data
drive (because in a fit of paranoia I disconnected it before starting, just in case).

That's THREE STRIKES, and three strikes means you're out. Never Windoze 10. Never again.

Plus, system 3 is still not as fast as it was before.

> Laptops, of course, are sold in far more limited configurations (and the W10 pre-install
> compatibility tester knows about most of them), so if W10 is prepared to install itself on
> the laptop it's probably going to work.
> It's because he was switching to a a laptop from a mainstream manufacturer (and a fairly
> up-to-date one at that) that I suggested John might want to reconsider his position
> vis-a-vis Windows 10. I had no significant problems upgrading either of my notebooks
> (the Dell XPS13 I bought five years ago or the HP8740w that was a couple of years older),
> although since then the HP has succumbed to hardware failures.
> While you're going through the hassle of porting everything to a new machine anyway is
> the best time to change the operating system - you don't really want to go through all
> the grief again in a couple of years.  In fact the W7 - W10 upgrade was only the second
> time I upgraded the OS on one of my systems (the other was back in the Windows NT era);
> most of the time I kept the machines running the OS that was initially installed.
>> On Thu, Mar 01, 2018 at 10:34:38AM +1000, John Coyle wrote:
>>   There must be something I don't get: I started with DOS, worked with every iteration of Windows
>> from 3.1 to 10 (except 8), and never had serious issues.  I'm still running a copy of Lotus 1-2-3
>> from 1995, and it's working just as it always did.
>> The upgrade from W7 to W10 took a little time but never faltered, and now it's generally stable.
>> The only annoyance I have is, very occasionally, it will start an update while I'm working, and in
>> doing so can stop some services, but it's easily overcome by a warm boot - which doesn't seem to
>> cruel the update!

IIRC, I started out with DOS 3.0 -> IBM PC DOS 7 -> OS/2 2.1 -> OS/2 3.0; downgraded to Windows 3.1
-> Windows 3.11 -> Windows for Workgroups; gave it to my Mom because she needed a computer that would
run AOL.

Built myself a new box with Windows 95 -> Windows 98 Second Edition -> Windows NT 4.0 -> Windows XP
-> Windows 7 -> Windows 7 x64 ...

This computer is on at least it's 5th motherboard and I don't remember how many times I've upgraded
the Hard Drives, but at least 2 of them were smaller than 1GB. I'm currently running 2 2TB drives in
this computer. I should probably add another 2TB drive.

>> John in Brisbane
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: PDML [mailto:pdml-bounces at pdml.net] On Behalf Of John
>> Sent: Thursday, 1 March 2018 9:13 AM
>> To: pdml at pdml.net
>> Subject: Re: PDML Annual book - request for next year
>> On 2/28/2018 16:42, John Coyle wrote:
>>> On most on-line forms, under Windows 10, and prior to that under at
>>> least 7 if not XP, previously submitted information is available if you type the first letter of
>> the information as a dropdown.
>>> More than that, I notice that on at least one line banking system,
>>> when making payments, previously entered references are also available.
>>> Perhaps that is an advantage of using Windows, despite the naysayers in this group?
>> The advantage for me was Windows has always been mostly hardware agnostic. I could buy parts, plug
>> 'em together; boot up the install disk and get a working, usable system ... up until Windoze 10.
>> When I wanted to actually do some work, the applications I needed to use would function. Sometimes
>> it was aggravating. It took trial and error to get it going, but eventually it *DID* get going.
>> Often it was FUGLY, but it worked.
>> That's why I'm so hostile towards Windoze 10. It didn't work. After all the nagging and aggravation
>> they put me through, it wouldn't work.

Note 1 - It just occurred to me this is where I should start my experiment with Linux. Learn it here
before I need it there.

Science - Questions we may never find answers for.
Religion - Answers we must never question.

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